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 800 Fuel Filler Pipes 
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 Post subject: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 12:43 am 
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800 filler pipes rust badly and have been NLA for years (they were £200+VAT when available). It's a problem best sorted before you start making puddles on the petrol station forecourt and find your tank is full of rust.

I refurbed one for my own car a while ago and thought I'd offer it up as a service.

What's done:

Clean and degrease (natch)
Electrolytic bath to remove all corrosion
Any structural repairs made
Zinc primer for corrosion protection
Coated in polyester resin with filler for strength
Sealed with black gelcoat
Pipe connections painted and foam rubber gasket fitted

End result is far more durable than new.

Fit's all Mk2 800's and should also fit Mk1's (need to confirm)

Image

Price: £60 outright sale. I'd also be interested in buying back your original filler if in a suitable condition for refurbishment.

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 10:07 am 
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The one on my mk1 800 is totaly gone, have you found out if these fit the Mk1 yet?

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:57 pm 
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Just confirmed by a member on rover800, fillers between mk1 and mk2 cars are the same/interchangable :)

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:09 am 
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time has come to get one off you mate :D
no one is willing to sell me a standard one lol.

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:16 pm 
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Punx0r wrote:
800 filler pipes rust badly and have been NLA for years (they were £200+VAT when available). It's a problem best sorted before you start making puddles on the petrol station forecourt and find your tank is full of rust.

I refurbed one for my own car a while ago and thought I'd offer it up as a service.

What's done:

Clean and degrease (natch)
Electrolytic bath to remove all corrosion
Any structural repairs made
Zinc primer for corrosion protection
Coated in polyester resin with filler for strength
Sealed with black gelcoat
Pipe connections painted and foam rubber gasket fitted

End result is far more durable than new.

Fit's all Mk2 800's and should also fit Mk1's (need to confirm)

Image

Price: £60 outright sale. I'd also be interested in buying back your original filler if in a suitable condition for refurbishment.

I'll have one. I'm in real need of one, sort of now-ish.

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:07 pm 
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800 fuel filler pipes
Please contact me on 01492876742 as my son needs a replacement urgently.
Many thanks r.maguire.


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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:45 pm 
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[quot[url][img][*][*][list=]
    [code][/code]
[/list][/img][/url]e="Punx0r"]800 filler pipes rust badly and have been NLA for years (they were £200+VAT when available). It's a problem best sorted before you start making puddles on the petrol station forecourt and find your tank is full of rust.

I refurbed one for my own car a while ago and thought I'd offer it up as a service.

What's done:

Clean and degrease (natch)
Electrolytic bath to remove all corrosion
Any structural repairs made
Zinc primer for corrosion protection
Coated in polyester resin with filler for strength
Sealed with black gelcoat
Pipe connections painted and foam rubber gasket fitted

End result is far more durable than new.

Fit's all Mk2 800's and should also fit Mk1's (need to confirm)

Image

Price: £60 outright sale. I'd also be interested in buying back your original filler if in a suitable condition for refurbishment.[/quote]


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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:46 pm 
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Hi, I need a fuel filler pipe assembly, who do I contact and how...many thanks :?


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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:49 pm 
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Sorry guys, I don't have any. I used to be able to pick up useable ones in the scrappy, but the last couple I did were mission to find and then needed a fair amount of new metal welding in.

If I can find any more I'll do them up and keep them ready, but I don't know when that'll be, so best to find a non-holed one locally if you can.

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 1:09 am 
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I noticed you did filler necks. I'm on a serious look out for one for my customer, which as of now is chomping at the bit to get his mk2 827 back on the road. My searches for the neck have all but been exhausted so now I turn to you. Do you have any left. The one on the car is not servicable, in fact it's like swiss cheese. If you can help it would be very much appreciated.

To anyone out there. If you know who use to manufacture these fillers for Rover or know who has the tooling then it would be appreciated if you could pass on the information as I would seriously like to purchase the tooling or dimensions or both.

Thanks in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:11 am 
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I have often wondered if they could be made in Stainless steel.....

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:19 pm 
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Sorry, I still haven't any available. Your best bet is to try Chris ("Chr1se") for a serviceable used filler as I understand he usually has some to hand. He's on here and also on Rover800.info.

Hope this helps

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 9:55 pm 
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Thanks for the quick replies. I'll see if I can seek Chris out.

I was thinking of making them up in either stainless or galv. The breather pipes are easy to make up but the main one is the problem. I'll keep you informed. :)


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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 7:37 pm 
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woodysworld wrote:
Thanks for the quick replies. I'll see if I can seek Chris out.

I was thinking of making them up in either stainless or galv. The breather pipes are easy to make up but the main one is the problem. I'll keep you informed. :)



Thought i'd throw my two-penn'orth in, even though i'm hardly ever on here! Been wondering why my fuel economy was suffering lately and why i could smell petrol quite strongly almost all the time.
While changing the rear pads recently i noticed the filler neck looked a bit rough so decided to take it out and have a proper look today :

Image

Doesn't look too bad, even though it's holed :

Image

So i was hopeful of just patching it to get me about until i could get a good replacement until i saw this after giving it a bit of a rub :

Image

So it's fire up my "ark" welder - yes it is an arc welder and it's so old i reckon Noah had it as a boy but it works! I've got some thin wall steel pipe just about the right size so fingers crossed!

Reckon it's time to look into alternative materials for this item though. Stainless would be nice but expensive. Aluminium might be an option or perhaps even brass or copper.

Once i've fixed this one enough to make it usable, i'll take some drawings/measurements. Of course, the main problem is that whatever it's made from (except stainless) is likely to corrode as it's a total mud trap where the top of the filler neck lives. Perhaps the answer would be a stainless filler neck then a rubber hose down to the tank without the steel down tube - just rubber all the way except the filler itself. Ideally something like glass-filled nylon moulded into shape but that's a lot of work and money for a one-off and i don't have an injection moulding machine!

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:37 pm 
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Stainless isn't expensive

I can supply off cuts of sheets posted if needed.

1mm, 2mm whatever.

I can also supply stainless dairy tubing which is thin walled.

If anyone fancies a play with some let me know
:thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 10:59 pm 
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Cheers for that Vinny, i'll let you know if i go down that route. For now i've attacked it with the disc cutter, several rotary wire brushes and an off-cut of new exhaust pipe. Just need to make a new flange and weld it up and i should be all systems go again once the new master cylinder arrives! But that's another story!

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 12:33 am 
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I wonder if the top module (the actually filler part) is a standard part that's dropped into the top of the bespoke (for the car) pipe. If so, that would make it easier to produce a new filler assembly. It's still going to involve a fair amount of tube forming though. The breather pipes will also be a pain. They're a bit of an unusal setup compared to other cars, but you kinda have to assume they're there for a good reason.

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 6:21 am 
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I was wondering the same Anthony. There's only about 20mm (3/4") from the sealing face of the filler neck to the tube end. If you have a look inside, you'll see a ridge where it's welded onto the pipe inside. From what i can work out, the reduced diameter filler orifice (for unleaded fuel) is an interference fit in the filler pipe. In turn this stretches the filler pipe slightly to make it an interference fit in the filler neck. The flange is then welded on at right angles such that 3 joins are formed with one weld - flange to neck, neck to pipe and pipe to reduced dia. filler. The latter isn't terrifically important and in fact showed no evidence of ever having been welded on mine. It's main purpose in life is to prevent a leaded or diesel fuel dispenser nozzle being inserted. In fact, this little device was so far down the pipe on mine, i often had difficulty getting the nozzle through it, especially if topping up from a can which i sometimes do! The other minor problem i had with it is when the (spring-loaded) flap is opened, it also opens a breather hole. This breather hole was below the nozzle hole on mine rendering it pretty much useless!
I'm not sure about the legality (for MoT purposes or anything else) of deleting this device and simply making a plate with a reduced opening, much like a small funnel inside the neck.

In terms of re-engineering it using readily available parts, any vented filler cap should work as long as it's profile was low enough to fit behind the external filler flap. The outside dia. of the filler neck is 57mm (2 1/4") reducing to 33mm (1 3/8") at the lower end with a bend of approximately 60 degrees roughly halfway. To this end, exhaust pipe reducers are available for an "off the shelf" kit of bits. That said, it wouldn't have to be 57mm to start with, a "standard" 50mm/2" filler neck could be used with one of the body grommets. As for the other breather pipes, it would appear they are 2 pairs of pipes, siamesed into vapour traps. The only one that might be critical is the breather stub which is about 50mm (2") from the face of the filler tube. Again it could probably be modified to use readily available components. Alternatively, parts from the following link could easily be used :

https://www.europaspares.com/10/FUEL_CAPS_and_HOSE.html

This would give the owner scope for a lot of individuality as well as fixing the original problem!

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 8:39 am 
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Looking at it, I'm wondering if you could use the top part from a bubble, which are all plastic and therefore rotproof, cut it off and then put some sort of flexible pipe on to get it to where you need it? If they are prone to rusting that would fix it for good then.

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 8:56 am 
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This thread has made me nervous about looking at the one on the tickford I've just picked up!! :(

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 10:03 am 
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What's the mounting flange like on the bubble fillers, Jon?

Something will need to be worked out eventually as this problem is only going to get worse as the cars age.

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 10:13 am 
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Null_Byte wrote:
Looking at it, I'm wondering if you could use the top part from a bubble, which are all plastic and therefore rotproof, cut it off and then put some sort of flexible pipe on to get it to where you need it? If they are prone to rusting that would fix it for good then.


Like the way you think! Had a quick squiz on Rimmers and the bubble filler looks totally the wrong shape but that would be the ideal. If i had and injection moulding machine and the facilities to make the mould tool, i'd make one from glass filled nylon or something very similar - Delrin perhaps. Unfortunately nothing like that is "for good", plastic would certainly eliminate the rust problem but it does bio-degrade and become brittle with age and a few other problems.

Once i've welded this one up, i'm seriously considering getting one of these behind the existing flap : https://www.europaspares.com/product/24 ... NDARD.html

Then use one of those reducing T-pieces to make the breather that tees into the filler neck or something similar.

At the end of it all any filler within reason/size/shape can be made to fit and made to look good and leak free. What i should have done is when i got the car 3 years ago, removed the filler neck, wire brushed it, plastered it in Kurust/Jenolite/other rust treatments are available, painted it in smooth black Hammerite and cleaned the mud away from the body work above the filler. As it stands now it looks like i'll need to do some preventive maintenance on that while i'm fixing the filler neck. Then when it was all clean, tidy, painted and leak/rust free, kept it regularly washed to keep the mud away.

RobBBoi - that's what i suggest you do on your Tickford, take it down now before you start using it regularly and wire brush/Kurust/smoothrite it while it's still in one piece! If it's seriously rough, you have time to find a replacement in good enough order to do that to before fitting.

PunXor - totally agree, i hinted at that earlier as the number of spares vehicles is dropping rapidly! My local scrappy used to have between 3-6 800s at any given time, they only have 2 at the moment, both KV6s so most bits won't fit my 2.7!

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 12:31 am 
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Aye. I remember a few years ago when our local scrappy would usually have a dozen 800's in, always a couple of Mk1's as well.

Definitely check the underseal on the inner arch above the filler. I ended up putting my hand through mine when I removed the rotten remains of the filler. I nearly cried...

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 1:05 pm 
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It feels solid so far but it has been marked so i need to do something, certainly before either winter or the sugar beet season!
Luckily my car has had some sort of rust treatment (Dinitrol or similar) as there's several grommets (marked with a brand name) in things like the sill end caps etc so hopefully it should be ok.

The situation with the cars in scrappies is getting to the point where i'm seriously thinking about buying a spares car myself but storage is a problem for me. Got a fair bit of space in my shed loft but obviously can't put things like engines, gearboxes etc up in there!

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 7:44 pm 
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Just a thought but the Honda legend 2.7 may have the same unit in which case there must be some available in the US.If someone can confirm that they are the same I will go hunting in California next month.
Yep I am in need of one of these babies as well.....for my 827 Coupé.


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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 8:27 pm 
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I've thought along similar lines and scoured ebay USA and ebay Asutralia for 800s/Legends being broken - no joy as yet though!

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:30 am 
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Will ask around and at the local "pick and pull" when over in California.If there is a big enough demand it might be economic to get some made up.After all its only a few pieces of metal tubing so not rocket science. I see from the Rover 800info forum that we are not alone!


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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:21 am 
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The Legend is a good idea - I would be *very* surprised if the Legend filler wasn't the same. The cars were pretty much identical mechanically.

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 12:11 pm 
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Not sure which States this applies to, but some States don't recognise "Honda" - they use "Acura" instead so if you get blank looks asking for a Honda Legend fuel filler, try asking for an Acura Legend filler instead.

There is another option i'm considering that gets round the need for using something that is OE shaped. Using one of these fuel fillers and some 2" fuel hose and the original breather tube from the Rover would be a good no-rust option.
Not sure if it's the right "angle of dangle" to fit the Rover filler aperture perfectly but it doesn't look too far out. Also the Rover filler (if i remember rightly from when i welded mine up) is 2 1/4" primary pipe (where the cap fits) which then reduces to 2" O/D to join to the rubber hose that links it with the tank. So remove the Rover filler, fit one of those and a length of 2" bore fuel hose between it and the tank, remove the breather (i think Rover call it a "vapour separator") and then use the breather as it was originally, job done!

Bottom line is it's a case of realising that even the newest 800 is now some 14 years old or thereabouts and as such any second hand spares are likely to be the same age. Granted there are many pattern parts makers for things like header tanks but perhaps we need to use a bit of lateral thinking in terms of what we fit to keep the car on the road and not just scrap it for the sake of a fuel filler.

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 11:50 am 
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I was talking USA and of course its Acura over there and the part is available new for around $90 of $12 from the local "Pick and Pull" in downtown Oakland CA so plan on buying a new one next month with fingers crossed that it will fit OK.
I met a 2.7 Legend Coupé owner in California recently,the same model as "Rhonda", which had 435000 miles on it and was used for a daily commute of 130 miles round trip.When I asked if the guy had any problems he looked at me as if I was a bit weird and said "NO should I have had some?"
On servicing he said he did an oil change every couple of years and he vaguely recollected changing the plugs and filters sometime in the past couple of years! Californian car = no rust anywhere BUT interior like a hen house.
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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 12:58 pm 
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Have i read that right Steve? The price i mean? A new fuel filler for $90??? Not sure what the exchange rate is but it's something that would easily fit in your suitcase (the clothes would help protect it too) so for something around £60 (based on something i looked at on ebay recently) you'll have a new fuel filler! Bargain! Fancy bringing a few back with you next time if it's the right part? :D

That californian Legend owner really should do a bit more maintenance on his car! Good to know how long they can go on for though, gives me more hope that mine will still be with me for a long time to come! Even though US miles are slightly shorter than UK miles that's still easily 400k miles!

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:16 am 
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I remember reading somewhere about the development of the original 800, and the collaboration between Honda and Austin Rover (as 'twas) on it's design. Obviously, looking at the MKI 800, Honda designers have had a big say in what the car looked like (the phrase "It's a great big Honda" does sort of suggest itself), but there were big disagreements over a lot of the mechanicals, in particular the front suspension. Honda were determined that it should have two wishbones, while Rover wanted the traditional Macpherson strut. Honda's design would have allowed a bigger interior cabin, as more space would have been freed up inside the engine bay in the absence of a 'suspension turret', but Rover's idea (proven to have been the right one, undoubtably) would make the car ride like a big saloon car should, rather than like a big version of a small car.

Honda were not especially pleased at having to compromise on this point, but Rover were obviously mindful of the critical point their relationship with Honda had reached; ie Honda were very near to completely buying Rover out, which would have made Rover simply a UK based assembler of Honda cars, but were worried about 'quality control' issues. Honda eventually agreed with Rover's engineers on the finer points of the 800s nuts and bolts, but struck a deal which would see Cowley produce the Honda Legend as well as the 800 (after an army of Honda's people had inspected every inch of the factory to ensure it had the proper feng shui or something, I suppose) and all was well again. Rover's integrity and independence was preserved, and Honda's (let's face it: invaluable) continuing support and cooperation was maintained.

You know, you can't deny it; Honda can produce a top quality motor car, any old day. Somehow, though, there's something that a Vitesse Coupe has that no Honda Legend could have in a million years. And it's probably got nothing whatsoever to do with it's front suspension......

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:49 am 
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noonan mckane wrote:
I remember reading somewhere about the development of the original 800, and the collaboration between Honda and Austin Rover (as 'twas) on it's design. Obviously, looking at the MKI 800, Honda designers have had a big say in what the car looked like (the phrase "It's a great big Honda" does sort of suggest itself), but there were big disagreements over a lot of the mechanicals, in particular the front suspension. Honda were determined that it should have two wishbones, while Rover wanted the traditional Macpherson strut. Honda's design would have allowed a bigger interior cabin, as more space would have been freed up inside the engine bay in the absence of a 'suspension turret', but Rover's idea (proven to have been the right one, undoubtably) would make the car ride like a big saloon car should, rather than like a big version of a small car.

Honda were not especially pleased at having to compromise on this point, but Rover were obviously mindful of the critical point their relationship with Honda had reached; ie Honda were very near to completely buying Rover out, which would have made Rover simply a UK based assembler of Honda cars, but were worried about 'quality control' issues. Honda eventually agreed with Rover's engineers on the finer points of the 800s nuts and bolts, but struck a deal which would see Cowley produce the Honda Legend as well as the 800 (after an army of Honda's people had inspected every inch of the factory to ensure it had the proper feng shui or something, I suppose) and all was well again. Rover's integrity and independence was preserved, and Honda's (let's face it: invaluable) continuing support and cooperation was maintained.

You know, you can't deny it; Honda can produce a top quality motor car, any old day. Somehow, though, there's something that a Vitesse Coupe has that no Honda Legend could have in a million years. And it's probably got nothing whatsoever to do with it's front suspension......


What you say is right but having owned both a Rover 620 and a Honda Accord 2.2iES coupe (imagine a 623 coupe and you're about there!), the Rover felt more solidly planted on the road and drove nicer. Despite paying about £4k for the Honda and about £200 for the Rover (both on "N" plates!) the Rover was nicer with the wood trim etc although it was a lowly 620i against the range-topping "ES" spec of the Honda. Granted the Honda had some extra toys like leather, cruise etc but if i'd bought a 620 with the toys the Rover would have been nicer all round. Mechanically there was little to separate them, if memory serves both had McPherson struts (Honda learnt a lesson with the 800, besides it was built by Honda Motor Co, North America) but with hindsight i would save my money and go for the Rover every time!

In the village where i live, there is a Legend in Nightfire Red or whatever Honda call their shade of that colour. Very well looked after by an old boy, always clean and polished etc. Having had a sneeky peek in as i went past, the interior looks plasticky and cheap, the instruments just look wrong (unequal size speedo and tacho), ergonomically it's a disaster with switchgear seemingly placed by a blind epileptic during a fit and it just doesn't look like a 30 grand car.

Parking my Sterling next to the Legend makes it look like a fat, bloated wannabe which is a shame when you consider how closely related they are.

As for my fuel filler, i suppose some time next year i'll have to start looking seriously for a replacement as although my welds are holding, the rest of the pipe isn't doing so well! Maybe i'll take my own advice and get one of those fillers from Europa Spares i linked to further up.

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Dave

1994 Sterling, unique exhaust, de-catted and water injected


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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:23 pm 
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I'll be interesting to see what you can do with one. I must admit, I still don't know for sure why the original pipe has quite the breather tube arrangement that it does.

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Anthony | 1997 800 Vitesse Coupe, 1985 SD1 Vitesse


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 Post subject: Re: 800 Fuel Filler Pipes
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:10 pm 
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I thought it was a very strange arrangement when i first saw it too. Trawling through the Super CD the other day i found a diagram that made sense of it. Hopefully it makes things a bit clearer :

Image

Basically the important one is the thick one that goes into the top of the filler neck. Strangely this one doesn't seem to appear in the diagram! This is the tank breather to prevent splashback etc when filling and that will be the tricky one to add in using the Europa filler if i go down that route.
The 2 pairs of small bore tubes can go almost anywhere as long as the pairs remain paired if that makes sense. One pair is for the charcoal canister and i can't remember what the other pair are for without finding that diagram but basically they are both vapour separators so as long as they exist somewhere and are high enough they should be fine.

Also wondered about other fillers from the ARG (as it was at one point) range such as the 200/400 filler, Maestro/Montego filler, Series Land Rover (i know this filler is used a lot on diesel powered stand-alone generators like the power companies hire in during power failures, contractors use on building sites etc) filler, perhaps even the humble Mini filler could be adapted.

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Dave

1994 Sterling, unique exhaust, de-catted and water injected


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